Speaker A I think in terms of using levels.
Speaker B Of complexity framework for designing organizations, is is as current today as it was 20 years ago. I think for the challenge for us.
Speaker A Is to put things across in a.
Speaker B Way in a language that line managers understand and not to be too esoteric too, if you like, academic about it.
Speaker A And certainly within the work that we.
Speaker B Do, the contribution that Luke Hubeck has made in terms of the idea of domains of work for our market has been great because people like circles. And so, if you like, it's softened some of that approach because, of course, a lot of organizations are working with matrix organizations. But it's not just about the levels of complexity in designing the roles. It's about how do they fit together? So it's the whole leadership question. It's about unless my boss provides me with the right context, it's very difficult for me to do my work. So it's about thinking about how those levels fit together. What is it that people do? What context do they have to provide? How does that leadership feel for people who are experiencing it?
Speaker A And even where you have matrix organizations.
Speaker B Some of the problems with the matrix organizations are the nature of the relationships. I think what we can all do is to help clarify the nature of the relationship at the intersections because that's very often where and I think if you go back to Elliot's work on authorities and accountabilities where he describes the different authorities and accountabilities for different types of roles. Whether that's an advisory role or a managerial role I think are as just as useful today as when that work was first written, and increasingly so because.
Speaker A We'Re hearing organizations more and more saying.
Speaker B We have a problem with accountability. We're too diffused. We don't know who's supposed to take decisions.
Speaker A And of course, it's very difficult to.
Speaker B Start rewarding people if you don't know.
Speaker A What it is they're supposed to do.
Speaker B So I think the whole levels of complexity framework adds enormously to that whole debate about organizational design. I think sometimes we have to be pragmatic. It's not about being prescriptive in the way that we use it, but offering it as a framework for support, for help.